After sending off my FAC application 3 weeks ago the FEO called me today to arrange an interview. At first he was under the impression that I was only applying for a shotgun certificate as he hadn’t had the FAC application given to him (even though they were sent in the same envelope?).
The FEO asked what calibres I was applying for and if I had letters to say that I was allowed to shoot those calibres on the land, I explained that I had enclosed these letters from the landowners in with my application.
Apparently these letters aren’t much good as the land owners are not qualified enough to make that decision, I need to go back to the land owners and ask them to organise the police to visit and write letters explaining the suitability of the land (I thought that my FEO would do this, and if not him personally I thought he would organise it with police in the local area?).
Also I don’t really want to be pestering the landowners now, I’ve already got them to fill out my permission letters, and now they have to go out of their way to call organise the police to come over to check.
So now he has cancelled the meeting we had booked (for Wednesday morning) and postponed it till I have these letters of land suitability from the police in the area where the land is.
Also he asked if I had any firearm training, as I haven’t done any official training he said that he does want letters from people I have been shooting with that explains that I am ‘safe and able’.
What are your opinions?
FAC Application Process
FAC Application Process
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Re: FAC Application Process
Paul,
Tell him to go and read the Home Office Guidelines again.
The land may well already have been approved and the Police need to check that. if it has not, it's up the the police to arrange with the landowner for an inspection to take place.
If the land has been approved at any time in the past and for the calibres you want then letters from the land owners are sufficient
There is NO requirement for firearms training,although some forces ask you to go out with an experience shooter a couple of times before letting you have a centrefire rifle.
The law requires that you have good reason for possessing each weapon and secure storage for the weapon(s) and ammunition. If you can prove that then they can't refuse you unless you have a criminal record or are a certified nutter.
DO NOT let them steamroller you. Remember, their agenda is to make it as difficult as possible for you to get an FAC and some forces try to make up conditions which are not in the Home Office Guidelines.
Stand up to them and threaten to appeal if they refuse to grant you a certificate if you believe you fulfill all the conditions. They don't like going to an appeal because they almost always lose, so they tend to give in before an appeal happens.
All the best with the application and don't let them get away with making up s**t
Cheers
Bruce
Tell him to go and read the Home Office Guidelines again.
The land may well already have been approved and the Police need to check that. if it has not, it's up the the police to arrange with the landowner for an inspection to take place.
If the land has been approved at any time in the past and for the calibres you want then letters from the land owners are sufficient
There is NO requirement for firearms training,although some forces ask you to go out with an experience shooter a couple of times before letting you have a centrefire rifle.
The law requires that you have good reason for possessing each weapon and secure storage for the weapon(s) and ammunition. If you can prove that then they can't refuse you unless you have a criminal record or are a certified nutter.
DO NOT let them steamroller you. Remember, their agenda is to make it as difficult as possible for you to get an FAC and some forces try to make up conditions which are not in the Home Office Guidelines.
Stand up to them and threaten to appeal if they refuse to grant you a certificate if you believe you fulfill all the conditions. They don't like going to an appeal because they almost always lose, so they tend to give in before an appeal happens.
All the best with the application and don't let them get away with making up s**t
Cheers
Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR
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Re: FAC Application Process
The last visit I had for land suitability, I attended to myself as I didn't want the busy landowner troubled with it. Thankfully, I've an open ticket now, so the suitably onus lies on my shoulders.
If the land is outside of your area, it can be time consuming. Your firearms dept contacts the relevant one for the area. They have to find time to go out. They report back with their findings, which are sent to your firearms dept, who then evaluate the report and get back to you. Long winded.
You ask for the calibres you want, and you give good reason. They'll determine whether the land is suitable for a given calibre(s).
It is possible that they could put a mentor condition on your ticket.
George
If the land is outside of your area, it can be time consuming. Your firearms dept contacts the relevant one for the area. They have to find time to go out. They report back with their findings, which are sent to your firearms dept, who then evaluate the report and get back to you. Long winded.
You ask for the calibres you want, and you give good reason. They'll determine whether the land is suitable for a given calibre(s).
It is possible that they could put a mentor condition on your ticket.
George
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some bloke
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Re: FAC Application Process
You are correct Paul, if the land has not been deemed suitable for a novice shooter it is for the FLO to arrange an inspection for suitability for the calibers you request - or they may decide what calibers it qualifies for - and if your caliber requirement is within that scope then you get to shoot there.
It could be that he meant he needs to hear what caliber the landowner is prepared to allow you to use there - and what he is allowing you to shoot. Some FLO's are more particular about small details than others. It is not the landowners job to arrange the inspection. The FLO can do it alone or preferably you join him and have a good chat while you are on walkabout with him. He gets to 'feel a bit more about you that way and can judge your safe shot awareness etc better.
Don't bother the landowner again IMO. It sounds like FLO will require that you be accompanied by an experienced shooter for a mentoring period. I have no idea what caliber you applied for but if for example it was initially just FAC air for a while it will probably sail through a lot smoother if the FEO is being a jobsworth. You will pay the same amount regardless how many rifles as you need at the outset but the higher the caliber the more hoops he might want you to jump through.
Best of luck mate, and remember it is your absolute right to own firearms if you can satisfy a need for - rather than want. You indicate what you require and prove you need it. They have to establish a reason for you not to have it.
It could be that he meant he needs to hear what caliber the landowner is prepared to allow you to use there - and what he is allowing you to shoot. Some FLO's are more particular about small details than others. It is not the landowners job to arrange the inspection. The FLO can do it alone or preferably you join him and have a good chat while you are on walkabout with him. He gets to 'feel a bit more about you that way and can judge your safe shot awareness etc better.
Don't bother the landowner again IMO. It sounds like FLO will require that you be accompanied by an experienced shooter for a mentoring period. I have no idea what caliber you applied for but if for example it was initially just FAC air for a while it will probably sail through a lot smoother if the FEO is being a jobsworth. You will pay the same amount regardless how many rifles as you need at the outset but the higher the caliber the more hoops he might want you to jump through.
Best of luck mate, and remember it is your absolute right to own firearms if you can satisfy a need for - rather than want. You indicate what you require and prove you need it. They have to establish a reason for you not to have it.
Re: FAC Application Process
Best of luck mate, and remember it is your absolute right to own firearms if you can satisfy a need for - rather than want. You indicate what you require and prove you need it. They have to establish a reason for you not to have it
I always thought that applied to a shotgun certificate not firearms
I always thought that applied to a shotgun certificate not firearms
Re: FAC Application Process
Cheers for the words of support. I think that because he caught himself off guard by not having the full application to hand, he imposed these tasks for me.
It's not the best thing to do really, but going in there 'all guns blazing' (so to speak) will give him reason to make things even harder for me.
I live right on the boarder of london and Hertfordshire, all my shooting is done in Hertfordshire as their isn't much going in London. 1 place is 5 mins drive from my house, second is 10mins and next is about 40mins.
I'm going to call the FEO which covers the areas i shoot tomorrow to see what he thinks (as I already called the Hertfordshire office and they thought it was a strange request). Hopefully this guy will go out and do the checks for me and write a letter to my FEO explaining the suitability of the land.
The thing is, I was under the impression that there was a database holding information about all the land which has already been cleared by the chief of police. If my FEO hasn't even seen my application and permission letters then he couldn't have even tried checking the land on the database.
Annoying!
Cheers
Paul
It's not the best thing to do really, but going in there 'all guns blazing' (so to speak) will give him reason to make things even harder for me.
I live right on the boarder of london and Hertfordshire, all my shooting is done in Hertfordshire as their isn't much going in London. 1 place is 5 mins drive from my house, second is 10mins and next is about 40mins.
I'm going to call the FEO which covers the areas i shoot tomorrow to see what he thinks (as I already called the Hertfordshire office and they thought it was a strange request). Hopefully this guy will go out and do the checks for me and write a letter to my FEO explaining the suitability of the land.
The thing is, I was under the impression that there was a database holding information about all the land which has already been cleared by the chief of police. If my FEO hasn't even seen my application and permission letters then he couldn't have even tried checking the land on the database.
Annoying!
Cheers
Paul
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Re: FAC Application Process
I couldn’t get hold of the FEO for Hertfordshire so I sent a letter to the licensing office requesting their help. They said that’s it’s a strange request from a Met FEO and they called the Met office and forwarded the email onto them.
They said that they wouldn’t go out and check land requested by me or the landowner as it needed to be the Met FEO to make that request.
Good news is that the lady checked the land database for me and said that one of the pieces of land has been cleared up to calibre .243. So that’s enough for my application to go ahead. The other 2 haven’t been checked so I suppose the FEO would need to arrange this.
They said that they wouldn’t go out and check land requested by me or the landowner as it needed to be the Met FEO to make that request.
Good news is that the lady checked the land database for me and said that one of the pieces of land has been cleared up to calibre .243. So that’s enough for my application to go ahead. The other 2 haven’t been checked so I suppose the FEO would need to arrange this.
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Re: FAC Application Process
Looking good for you then Paul.
I was unlucky with one of our force trainee FEO's being of the opinion FAC air was the same as 22lr so needed at least 60 acres before being considered - and C/F needed a min 300 acres before being considered. It was a right cuffuffle getting his opinions and decisions corrected, he moved on PDQ.
I was unlucky with one of our force trainee FEO's being of the opinion FAC air was the same as 22lr so needed at least 60 acres before being considered - and C/F needed a min 300 acres before being considered. It was a right cuffuffle getting his opinions and decisions corrected, he moved on PDQ.
Re: FAC Application Process
Sounds like the norm for some forces , as said before just introducing obstacles because they can . The main thing to remember in most cases the DONT want to have any firearms so will always be awkward . Get yourself into one of the associations such as Basc or shooters rights or deer society etc not only wi they help with any application issues but you will get insurance which protects u and the farmer should you have any accident or prob on the land . Best of luck tho rgds Ian
Re: FAC Application Process
It is well documented that the rules vary from force to force and person to person. The book is a guide line and depending on the experience of the person interpreting them it can get awkward. Luckily mine seems to understand things.
I got 5 acres cleared for the HMR for foxing. He cleared it only for me because I went out with the feo and explained how I would set up there.
Land needs to be cleared if your license is closed. I would recommend meeting the FEO on the land if it isn't cleared as he can then see that you have a good idea of safety, and really that is is what it should be about. Is this person going to be a safe shot on the land over which he will be shooting. It is all communication. I did have the same problem with the closed license and it is just showing the guy that you are a competent and safe shot and have a good understanding of the basics.
I got 5 acres cleared for the HMR for foxing. He cleared it only for me because I went out with the feo and explained how I would set up there.
Land needs to be cleared if your license is closed. I would recommend meeting the FEO on the land if it isn't cleared as he can then see that you have a good idea of safety, and really that is is what it should be about. Is this person going to be a safe shot on the land over which he will be shooting. It is all communication. I did have the same problem with the closed license and it is just showing the guy that you are a competent and safe shot and have a good understanding of the basics.