A new NV freak

[pitchblack]

hello people,

I am new to this forum and I want to introduce myself just a little bit - I am sorry for any mistakes in my postings, but since I am from Germany/Bavaria english is not my home language... so just read between the lines and everything will be fine!
So why am I here - NV has been fascinating me since i was a little kid... when I first saw "James Bond - 007 - From Russia with love" - I remember the scene when the infrared scope was used... with this window in a big advertising... some might remember the scene...

I have been interested in NV ever since, but mostly in "theory" - at that time it was simply too expensive and not really available.

I do own two NV devices... both are Yukon Ranger 5x42, actually I bought one first and then someone sold an other one, the "pro" version... I wanted to try this too because it was said to have longer range... and they do have different chips... but unfortunately as I got it I have seen it is not the "pro" it was the same unit I already had... wrong advertise! It was not that expensive, so I kept it. I did some experiments with the unit - I made an adapter myself... it is not yet finished completely, but I can use standard "Fuji" Camera Lenses with it... so I can use a wide-angle with the unit and also I can use my 200 mm Tele/Zoom and everything else available ... which is quite interesting... just wanted to know if this could work and it does!

Two days ago I wrote an Email to Clive... think you know him... think he posted a lot here too... I asked him which long range illuminator would be best for the yukon for viewing animals at night (I am not a hunter) because the internal laser of the ranger does only reach out to 200 m in pitch black... but if there is full moon I can easily see 600+ meter with this device... it is not that bad... especially when using an external monitor with it... thats almost like "another world" Maybe I will open a "Yukon thread" sometime... but anyways... Clive told me about the "newest baby - the "black sun dark engine max covert" and that's why I registered here.... just wanted to look around what other ppl use for illumination.

In the near future i will probably invest in thermal NV also - I want to buy one of those new devices with 12my detector... they are quite good with excellent picture quality... the infiray E6 or the German Keiler 35 pro (2020) or the Keiler 36 or 50 ...there are impressing videos on Youtube.. really like it.

But I also will experiment somewhat with "wearable NV" ... I will try to make some kind of "smartglasses" with an IR illuminated cam on my head... or better said "hat" ...kind of invisible NV ...thats my plan... don't know how to exactly do it... but if you know "Vuzix" Video-Glasses or Smart Glasses of any other brand you will know what I mean... kinda like that.... going for a night walk with IR glasses on...

So maybe I will open or find a "black sun dark engine max covert" thread first because it might be the illuminator of my choice... I shall see... just to make sure it is the right device.... before sending it to Germany from the UK.

Nice forum anyway - happy I found it
Thanx&Greets

[sunndog]

Welcome aboard fella

As far as wearable n.v glasses go search out username "rolaids" also rolaids bench on YouTube.
It's probably six or seven years ago now but he went quite a long way with it

[blueeyes]

Welcome to the forum

[some bloke]

Welcome to the forum PB, sounds like we can look forwards to some interesting posts from you.

[pitchblack]

Thanks for your nice "welcome" - there is much to read in this forum... it's unbelievable!
just picked out some threads I found via the search... one can read for ages... tho i am going to open a new thread about the "black sun dark engine max covert" illuminator... that Clive told me of...I am not shure what those illuminators are really capable of... concerning long range 500 meter+ ...but I think ppl here can explain whats good and whats not with those illuminators.

[phoenix]

IR illuminators pretty much break down into 2 technologies and 2 wavelengths
The technologies are LED (Light Emitting Diode) and vcsel (vertical cavity surface emitting laser)
The wavelengths are 850nm (nanometer) and 940nm
Illuminators are available in both technologies and in both wavelengths, so 4 "flavours" of IR illuminator are available
In terms of the maximum range at which any of these illuminators can provide a decent image of a target, then a vcsel based 850nm illuminator will win, followed by a vcsel based 940nm, then an 850nm LED and finally a 940nm LED
Basically, vcsels are much brighter than LEDs and the cameras in digital NV devices are more sensitive to 850nm IR than to 940nm IR.
However, the choice of illuminator for any particular application depends mainly on:
a. The type of sensor in the digital NV device being used
b. How potential quarry responds to IR

Until a couple of years ago pretty much all good digital NV devices used low resolution, high sensitivity cameras - typically analog D1 resolution (768x576 pixels) and around 0.01 lux sensitivity
These cameras worked well with LED based IR illuminators, and LED based illuminators continue to work well with the few remaining analog camera rear add-ons available such as the WARD 800 series and the Ludicrous Lumens Vulpine.
They also work well with the high sensitivity HD (1280x720) cameras used in the Yukon Sightline and Pulsar Digex digital NV scopes.
However, more and more digital NV devices are now using full HD (1920x1080) or 4K (3864x2218) cameras and LED based illuminators simply cannot produce the intensity of IR needed to make these cameras produce a usable image at any other than short ranges.
Fortunately, vcsel based IR illuminators appeared on the scene and solved the problem, so the current state of play is that a vcsel based IR illuminator is pretty much a necessity for any digital NV device which uses a full HD or 4 k camera.
So, devices like the PARD 007 and 008, Sightmark Wraith and ATN X Sight rely on vcsel based IR illuminators to produce a usable image at extended ranges.
With regard to wavelength, it is the case that all digital NV cameras are something like 60% less sensitive to 940nm IR than they are to 850nm IR.
Clearly this results in 940nm IR illuminators having less range than 850nm.
The big benefit of 940nm is that it is much more covert than 850nm and less likely to be noticed or scare off potential quarry.
It can be the case that illumination using 940nm will allow a shot to be taken when 850nm would simply have scared the potential quarry away
There are several suppliers of aftermarket IR illuminators.
These Include Clive Ward at the Night Vision Store, Ian Sirrel at IRlightbuilds, Ludicrous Lumens and the torch factory.
All of the above sell all 4 flavours of IR wavelength and technology
The illuminators usually have one or more power settings or even continuously variable power.
They also have focusable lenses to adjust the beam from flood to spot
Finally to your question can a target at 500m be seen?
Answer - it depends
It depends on the size of the target and how much detail you want
It depends on the atmospheric conditions
It depends on the NV device being used
From experience, when used in clear conditions (low humidity) it is possible to see a fox size target clearly enough for positive identification at 500m using an 850nm vcsel based IR with a PARD NV008.
Hope that helps

Cheers

Bruce

[pitchblack]

@ Bruce

Wow! Thanx a lot for the info.

Although the Yukon Ranger is probably made for covert viewing with its 940 internal laser it might be better to use a 850 illuminator... I thought about that quite a lot, on one side I would like to get as much range as possible on the other side I want "covert" viewing... it is said that the 940 vcsel also have a slight red glow - is that right? I have never seen one in action... also never seen a video showing its "glow" ...that would be interesting to see... the difference in glow to a 850 one... if a person is viewing it from e. g. 200 meters... compared to a 850 vcsel.

[phoenix]

A 940nm vcsel will still have a slight glow.
That is simply down to the intensity of the IR being produced.
Our eyes, and animal eyes don't suddenly stop seeing things above a specific wavelength.
Our eyes and animals become less sensitive as wavelength increases and the commonly quoted upper wavelength for human vision is based on typical intensities. If the intensity of the IR illumination is high enough, we will still be able to detect it and see it as a dull red glow.
Frankly, I very much doubt that any animal at a distance of 600m from you would notice any glow from either 850nm or 940nm.
I'm not saying they will not see it, I'm saying it's extremely unlikely to make them react in any way.

Cheers

Bruce

[pitchblack]

@ Bruce

thanks for explaining - so I think the vcsel must be quite strong - on the internal Yukon 940 I don't see any glow... but if the vcsel will go out to 500+ meters and the internal 940 does only 200 meters... thats quite a difference... no wonder the 940 does not glow at all... or maybe they put something in frot of it inside... like a black see-through plastic or such... don't know. I would like to open the laser on the Yukon... but I still could not find out if it is screwed or glued... I tried screwing the laser lens... but it doesnt move at all... seems like glued.... I found a picture in the internet... someone got it off.... but I don't know and can't see how it was done! I don't see a m40 thread like on the objective lens on this picture... so I think it is glued... don't dare to use too much force...

[markgenes]

I have a Digex N455. Does anybody know if the illuminator that comes with it is LED or VCSEL?
The brightness on it is fine out to 250y, and the continuous dimmer feature is handy, especially given how sensitive the digex sensor is, but the IR beam can't be focused, which is a real oversight on Pulsar's part as I have to do a lot of fiddling with the beam direction to avoid shine off the moderator. Am thinking of getting a focusable VCSEL illuminator to avoid this problem and give the whole setup a bit more range. Is this wishful thinking?
Cheers