Cautionary tale
Cautionary tale
I am removing this post because of the very positive response to the situation that I have received from Pete Lincoln on resolving any issues.
Last edited by gdaredk on 19 Feb 2013, 10:42, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Cautionary tale
That looks like a german website?
Re: Cautionary tale
Roedale is based in Germany.
he was based there while serving in the forces. I believe he married a German girl and set up his business over there. He still advertises his wares and looks for business over here.
I have communicated with him via email. I have never done any business with him. I certainly would think twice about doing any business with him in the future.
I have a question for you gdaredk. You say you ordered two custom Rifles to be made. You then go on to say you sent two factory rifles over to him as a base for the custom rifles. My meaning of a custom rifle is that a custom action is used in the build not a factory action. You are talking a new barrel possibly new stock. Accurising the action and possible fitting new trigger. If the agreement was that the stocks were not to be changed, then there is nothing that you can really see that has been done internally to the action to promote accuracy. You would see a new trigger but really a trigger is a trigger the working part is unseen hidden away.
I think more info would be more appreciated regarding the spec that you requested for your builds.
Ian
he was based there while serving in the forces. I believe he married a German girl and set up his business over there. He still advertises his wares and looks for business over here.
I have communicated with him via email. I have never done any business with him. I certainly would think twice about doing any business with him in the future.
I have a question for you gdaredk. You say you ordered two custom Rifles to be made. You then go on to say you sent two factory rifles over to him as a base for the custom rifles. My meaning of a custom rifle is that a custom action is used in the build not a factory action. You are talking a new barrel possibly new stock. Accurising the action and possible fitting new trigger. If the agreement was that the stocks were not to be changed, then there is nothing that you can really see that has been done internally to the action to promote accuracy. You would see a new trigger but really a trigger is a trigger the working part is unseen hidden away.
I think more info would be more appreciated regarding the spec that you requested for your builds.
Ian
Re: Cautionary tale
iI am removing this post because of the very positive response to the situation that I have received from Pete Lincoln on resolving any issues.
Last edited by gdaredk on 19 Feb 2013, 10:43, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Cautionary tale
I am removing this post because of the very positive response to the situation that I have received from Pete Lincoln on resolving any issues.
Last edited by gdaredk on 19 Feb 2013, 10:43, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Cautionary tale
After reading the list you have provide are you saying that the only work carried out was a new barrel.
No Blueprinting of the action ( Blueprinting is not a correct term to use when truing and action. When he says Blueprinting, he should then be working from a blueprint drawing and machining the action to the exact spec of that drawing. This is not done with a Rifle action).
It looks like you have not received the service which he agreed to do to your Rifles. $ years is way to long to have a customers Rifle. As for your Rifle that you think he has sold. If the Germans use the same system as us for licensing, Yu should be able to know if that Rifle is now in the possession of someone else in Germany or even this country. You would probably have to seek legal assistance to find this information. Only other thing that could be a possibility i that they messed up with the machining which left them with an action the is now no longer functional.
If you have been dealing with this situation your self rather than seeking legal help, or advice. The process is going to take a lot longer. With legal representation, this process could have been sped up dramatically.
Last question. How much did you have to pay for the work carried out on the Sako. Was it the price of a new barrel and the fitting of. Or was it much more than that.
Ian
No Blueprinting of the action ( Blueprinting is not a correct term to use when truing and action. When he says Blueprinting, he should then be working from a blueprint drawing and machining the action to the exact spec of that drawing. This is not done with a Rifle action).
It looks like you have not received the service which he agreed to do to your Rifles. $ years is way to long to have a customers Rifle. As for your Rifle that you think he has sold. If the Germans use the same system as us for licensing, Yu should be able to know if that Rifle is now in the possession of someone else in Germany or even this country. You would probably have to seek legal assistance to find this information. Only other thing that could be a possibility i that they messed up with the machining which left them with an action the is now no longer functional.
If you have been dealing with this situation your self rather than seeking legal help, or advice. The process is going to take a lot longer. With legal representation, this process could have been sped up dramatically.
Last question. How much did you have to pay for the work carried out on the Sako. Was it the price of a new barrel and the fitting of. Or was it much more than that.
Ian
Re: Cautionary tale
I am removing this post because of the very positive response to the situation that I have received from Pete Lincoln on resolving any issues.
Last edited by gdaredk on 19 Feb 2013, 10:43, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Cautionary tale
Time to tell him you will be seeking legal advice if the monies owed are not paid in full by a date of your choice.
I get angry when I hear times quoted for building custom Rifles. Ok a Bat action might take 6 months to work your way down the waiting list. They can bought off the shell from Bruno's shooting supplies in the states. The Rifle smith does not want to pay the $50 or whatever extra it is. that eats into his massive profits that he is already fleecing you for.
We all have this idea that Riflesmithing is an Art and we have to pay top whack for such a service. Rifle builders aint going to like me for saying this. I think they are over charging the customers for a service that only takes less than a working day to do from start to finnish. To then say it will take a year and a half to do. My Arse.
Truing an action in a Greg Tannel jig takes more time to set up the action square to the centerline whilst in the jig than it does truing the action. I purchased an action truing jig and also the very expensive action truing Mandrel that you use inside your action to square everything true. In fact I contacted Dave Manson directly and was the first person to be supplied with an action truing mandrel that is just a straight bar for its whole length. My query prompted him to start maketing them. I got the first one at a reduced price.
To rebarrel a rifle up here is £850 or there a bouts. You can buy a brand new stainless barrel from the top 3 makers for £300 +vat. So where is the rest of the money spent on. The barrel should be done from start to finnish in a morning or an afternoon, that is being conservative on the time allowed. It is a big rip off. And they are cuing up to be ripped off.
Lets just say. I have bought a new Barlein 30 calibre barrel from Ebay USA for £260, barrel was £195 postage and duty accounts for the rest. I have an action truing jig and Mandrel, two sets of grizzly rods to rebarrel using the Gordy gritters method. I also purchased headspace gauges and a 223 reamer that was used once for $45. I do not have a 223 but I have relations and friends that do. All in all I am not even close to the £850 wanted for a rebarrel job. Things only get cheaper the more I rebarrel. As my biggest outlay has already been made. All I need is a 308 reamer and I am in at the deep end, with every confidence of success. The barrel I purchased was profiled at the factory, I have one shot at it. I can not cut the barrel back and have another go as I would then go from straight barrel wall to the sloping profile. Live life on the edge, nothing ventured nothing gained.
It amazes me the money guys throw at Riflesmith's to do work on their rifles.
I have seen and heard of smiths that do not even go through the process of squaring the barrel true in the Lathe using 0.0001" Dial test indicators. They use a set of Delrin bushes that are cone shaped, slip one that fits over the barrel and push it through the head stock, the bore of the barrel then has a live center placed inside which is attached to the tailstock. all is tightened up in a 4 jaw chuck and a DTI was never used. This will still produce a rifle that you will think is the best thing you have ever owned. It will not produce an F-class winning Rifle or even one that will make the first 30 places in a competition. I want that type of quality for my hard earned cash, anything else is substandard.
First barrel I ever set up in a 4 jaw chuck took me an hour and a half to do. I had not even switched the Lathe on. I could spin the chuck by hand and there would be zero movement on two 0.0001" DTI's. I can do it now in under the half hour mark. Not many dedicated rifle builders want to waste their valuable time doing this.
Sorry for the rant. It upsets me that guys like myself are being asked to pay a fortune for a service that is really nothing out of the ordinary. We the shooters have placed these people on a pedestal and worship their talents that do not come cheap.
Off of Soap box and back to the Lathe making housings for the Markylights.
Ian
I get angry when I hear times quoted for building custom Rifles. Ok a Bat action might take 6 months to work your way down the waiting list. They can bought off the shell from Bruno's shooting supplies in the states. The Rifle smith does not want to pay the $50 or whatever extra it is. that eats into his massive profits that he is already fleecing you for.
We all have this idea that Riflesmithing is an Art and we have to pay top whack for such a service. Rifle builders aint going to like me for saying this. I think they are over charging the customers for a service that only takes less than a working day to do from start to finnish. To then say it will take a year and a half to do. My Arse.
Truing an action in a Greg Tannel jig takes more time to set up the action square to the centerline whilst in the jig than it does truing the action. I purchased an action truing jig and also the very expensive action truing Mandrel that you use inside your action to square everything true. In fact I contacted Dave Manson directly and was the first person to be supplied with an action truing mandrel that is just a straight bar for its whole length. My query prompted him to start maketing them. I got the first one at a reduced price.
To rebarrel a rifle up here is £850 or there a bouts. You can buy a brand new stainless barrel from the top 3 makers for £300 +vat. So where is the rest of the money spent on. The barrel should be done from start to finnish in a morning or an afternoon, that is being conservative on the time allowed. It is a big rip off. And they are cuing up to be ripped off.
Lets just say. I have bought a new Barlein 30 calibre barrel from Ebay USA for £260, barrel was £195 postage and duty accounts for the rest. I have an action truing jig and Mandrel, two sets of grizzly rods to rebarrel using the Gordy gritters method. I also purchased headspace gauges and a 223 reamer that was used once for $45. I do not have a 223 but I have relations and friends that do. All in all I am not even close to the £850 wanted for a rebarrel job. Things only get cheaper the more I rebarrel. As my biggest outlay has already been made. All I need is a 308 reamer and I am in at the deep end, with every confidence of success. The barrel I purchased was profiled at the factory, I have one shot at it. I can not cut the barrel back and have another go as I would then go from straight barrel wall to the sloping profile. Live life on the edge, nothing ventured nothing gained.
It amazes me the money guys throw at Riflesmith's to do work on their rifles.
I have seen and heard of smiths that do not even go through the process of squaring the barrel true in the Lathe using 0.0001" Dial test indicators. They use a set of Delrin bushes that are cone shaped, slip one that fits over the barrel and push it through the head stock, the bore of the barrel then has a live center placed inside which is attached to the tailstock. all is tightened up in a 4 jaw chuck and a DTI was never used. This will still produce a rifle that you will think is the best thing you have ever owned. It will not produce an F-class winning Rifle or even one that will make the first 30 places in a competition. I want that type of quality for my hard earned cash, anything else is substandard.
First barrel I ever set up in a 4 jaw chuck took me an hour and a half to do. I had not even switched the Lathe on. I could spin the chuck by hand and there would be zero movement on two 0.0001" DTI's. I can do it now in under the half hour mark. Not many dedicated rifle builders want to waste their valuable time doing this.
Sorry for the rant. It upsets me that guys like myself are being asked to pay a fortune for a service that is really nothing out of the ordinary. We the shooters have placed these people on a pedestal and worship their talents that do not come cheap.
Off of Soap box and back to the Lathe making housings for the Markylights.
Ian
Re: Cautionary tale
I am removing this post because of the very positive response to the situation that I have received from Pete Lincoln on resolving any issues.
Last edited by gdaredk on 19 Feb 2013, 10:44, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Cautionary tale
cracking post that ian....talented guy