Pulsar n450 vs ENV 10

[Mini Magnum]

Just received Sightline N470 units yesterday , pretty impressive for the money.

The front objective is huge in comparison to the size of the unit so its super sensitive and gathers lots of light with minimal IR.Benefits over other models, the usual Pulsar menu system is clean and very easy to navigate, the mounts are great and suitable for the standard or quick release pulsar options, the standard mountis supplied as well as a DNV battery pack and charger, features upto 24 digital mag and now includes PIP which takes the mag to 12x on the top of the screen whilst keeping a wide field of view, the PIP also keeps the same main selected reticule in it. Big choice of reticules, colours, illuminated centre points. Adjustable brightness and contrast settings. For the money there the best value Pulsar/Yukon branded NV scope to date for performance with the higher resolution sensor and AMOLED display...

I'll post some comparison photos later today..

[Cottis]

Oh crikey, well that decision just got harder.

So if I went back to using LED based illuminators rather than the Solaris, would these more sensitive units like the Pulsar and Yukon cope with this rather than whiting out with powerful lasers.

I mean with the Solaris and Ward 700 using either a Delta Stryker or a Sightron STAC, I can crank up the mag if I want and see proper definition on the face of a hare at nigh on 500yds. Obviously I have no real need to see that far and in that detail. I just need to be able to identify a fox at 200yds or under after spotting with a thermal so the shot can be taken.

[jthyttin]

Problem with Sightline and VCSEL is not the power per se, but FOV vs. illuminator beam.

Best results would be with either illuminator that can evenly fill the FOV (no dark spot in the middle) or if you need the IR not reflect on some vegetation etc. the power would have to be suitably low so that illuminated area and non-illuminated area are in the balance (no whiteout or degraded image).

Please see my (solitary...) thread for some findings:

https://nightvisionforumuk.com/viewtopi ... =3&t=21066

Basically the integrated illuminator (at least 940nm model) was fixed to provide 2x larger beam than FOV. I suspect this is to facilitate easier/cheaper manufacture and reduce (non-competent) user problems and claims. As a result I would go for the 940nm model since it provides stealth short distance option (let's say the beam is usable to 100m but only in situations when reflection is not excessive, to 50-70m if reflection problems) and add detachable illuminator for longer range. Without testing I'd say 850nm is usable to 150m or so.

Digital units are not very prone on the secondary "halo" around the beam that most LED torches have. If the halo glares back from mod or near surroundings, you can always try different illuminator positions or build a sunshade for illuminator. Integrated illuminator does not produce (Yukon-)detectable glare from mod.

[Cottis]

Problem with Sightline and VCSEL is not the power per se, but FOV vs. illuminator beam.

Best results would be with either illuminator that can evenly fill the FOV (no dark spot in the middle) or if you need the IR not reflect on some vegetation etc. the power would have to be suitably low so that illuminated area and non-illuminated area are in the balance (no whiteout or degraded image).

Please see my (solitary...) thread for some findings:

https://nightvisionforumuk.com/viewtopi ... =3&t=21066

Basically the integrated illuminator (at least 940nm model) was fixed to provide 2x larger beam than FOV. I suspect this is to facilitate easier/cheaper manufacture and reduce (non-competent) user problems and claims. As a result I would go for the 940nm model since it provides stealth short distance option (let's say the beam is usable to 100m but only in situations when reflection is not excessive, to 50-70m if reflection problems) and add detachable illuminator for longer range. Without testing I'd say 850nm is usable to 150m or so.

Digital units are not very prone on the secondary "halo" around the beam that most LED torches have. If the halo glares back from mod or near surroundings, you can always try different illuminator positions or build a sunshade for illuminator. Integrated illuminator does not produce (Yukon-)detectable glare from mod.

70 metres is just pointless for my application. I will need to shoot stuff from 30m to 200metres. I am yet come across any digital NV device where the included illuminator is completely fit for purpose. The Pard potentially could provide me with a solution without adding an extra illuminator but then I am governed by 2hrs battery life when using IR on full whack. That is just from what I read. As usual, it seems there is still no ideal solution. Amazing in this day and age. Maybe we have become spoiled with improvements over the years and I suppose I just expect more. Probably I am being unreasonable.

Maybe I will just stick with the extra bulk of the Ward 700. It is more unwieldy than I would like but shouldering the rifle is fine and I know it works to a variety of yardages with my current IR

[Mini Magnum]

Problem with Sightline and VCSEL is not the power per se, but FOV vs. illuminator beam.

Best results would be with either illuminator that can evenly fill the FOV (no dark spot in the middle) or if you need the IR not reflect on some vegetation etc. the power would have to be suitably low so that illuminated area and non-illuminated area are in the balance (no whiteout or degraded image).

Please see my (solitary...) thread for some findings:

https://nightvisionforumuk.com/viewtopi ... =3&t=21066

Basically the integrated illuminator (at least 940nm model) was fixed to provide 2x larger beam than FOV. I suspect this is to facilitate easier/cheaper manufacture and reduce (non-competent) user problems and claims. As a result I would go for the 940nm model since it provides stealth short distance option (let's say the beam is usable to 100m but only in situations when reflection is not excessive, to 50-70m if reflection problems) and add detachable illuminator for longer range. Without testing I'd say 850nm is usable to 150m or so.

Digital units are not very prone on the secondary "halo" around the beam that most LED torches have. If the halo glares back from mod or near surroundings, you can always try different illuminator positions or build a sunshade for illuminator. Integrated illuminator does not produce (Yukon-)detectable glare from mod.

70 metres is just pointless for my application. I will need to shoot stuff from 30m to 200metres. I am yet come across any digital NV device where the included illuminator is completely fit for purpose. The Pard potentially could provide me with a solution without adding an extra illuminator but then I am governed by 2hrs battery life when using IR on full whack. That is just from what I read. As usual, it seems there is still no ideal solution. Amazing in this day and age. Maybe we have become spoiled with improvements over the years and I suppose I just expect more. Probably I am being unreasonable.

Maybe I will just stick with the extra bulk of the Ward 700. It is more unwieldy than I would like but shouldering the rifle is fine and I know it works to a variety of yardages with my current IR

You have to use an external IR with a Ward 700, so just use an external IR with a Pard and your battery life will be substantially longer, even longer than an WDV700.

[phoenix]

How do you spot potential targets in your 30-200 meter shooting "window"?
Thermal, digital NV spotter, tubed NV spotter, lamp?
The reason I ask is because I find it hard to believe your nights shooting is governed by by the 2 hour run time of the 008 battery when the IR is on full power.
We spend much more time spotting than shooting and if you only switch on the IR for the shot, then battery life increases greatly
Also, carrying one,two or even 3 spare 18650 batteries in your pocket is no hardship. They come in small plastic boxes to prevent them shorting out on anything metal in your pocket.
The on board illuminator will be near it's limits at 200m, so it will depend on the size of the target and the nature of the ground the target is on.
IMHO, Anything on stubble or short grass is OK at 200m.
Bunnies in longer grass need a bit more light to see clearly, so an external illuminator would help.
Going for an 008 would replace a scope and the Ward - so there would be a significant reduction in weight, and a far better shooting position.
You need an external illuminator with the Ward any way, so needing one on the 008 for long shots is no big deal, and the lack of an external illuminator for most of your shots is a big benefit.
Look for positives - not negatives!!!!!

Cheers

Bruce

[Bob57]

So you only need to identify and shoot foxes out to 200yds and you use a thermal spotter and don't think an 18650 battery plus a spare won't be sufficient for a night from a 008,well you'll have no problem,and you won't get whiteout from the onboard laser too.

[Cottis]

How do you spot potential targets in your 30-200 meter shooting "window"?
Thermal, digital NV spotter, tubed NV spotter, lamp?
The reason I ask is because I find it hard to believe your nights shooting is governed by by the 2 hour run time of the 008 battery when the IR is on full power.
We spend much more time spotting than shooting and if you only switch on the IR for the shot, then battery life increases greatly
Also, carrying one,two or even 3 spare 18650 batteries in your pocket is no hardship. They come in small plastic boxes to prevent them shorting out on anything metal in your pocket.
The on board illuminator will be near it's limits at 200m, so it will depend on the size of the target and the nature of the ground the target is on.
IMHO, Anything on stubble or short grass is OK at 200m.
Bunnies in longer grass need a bit more light to see clearly, so an external illuminator would help.
Going for an 008 would replace a scope and the Ward - so there would be a significant reduction in weight, and a far better shooting position.
You need an external illuminator with the Ward any way, so needing one on the 008 for long shots is no big deal, and the lack of an external illuminator for most of your shots is a big benefit.
Look for positives - not negatives!!!!!

Cheers

Bruce

I spot with an XQ 38f. I certainly use whatever device to actually shoot with for short periods of time. As you suggest, the spotter does all the donkey work.

I am not shooting rabbits. I am shooting foxes mostly. The rabbits are trying to make a comeback but generally speaking are not a problem for us at present.

Is the shooting position better? I can shoulder my rifles normally but images with dedicated devices appear to show people with their cheeks well off the stock and what appears to be floating around. I walk and shoot. Not bopping bunnies at 50yds with a rimmie but taking shots from sticks out to 200yds. That is not always easy. Not saying this is unsurmountable but I am not looking for negatives anymore or less than positives. I am trying to work out whether spending £600-1000 would significantly improve my current situation.

I just read somewhere that if the battery dies whilst the unit is, it has some issue with the software. That cannot be right can it? I am assuming that is duff info.

I think your suggestion about trying it via the scope out guarantee from OW is a good one. I will look into having a look at all of them properly first hand.

Thanks Bruce

[Bob57]

I was out the other night walking with sticks with thermal spotter and the 008 on my 17 fireball, which is built on a tikka 595, I have no cheek riser on it and still managed to shoot 5 foxes out to 180yds, all could be seen clearly with just the onboard ir including one I didn't get a shot at which i watched for quite awhile to at least 250 yds on a bean stubble, while trying to call it in I noticed the battery icon was red so turned off replaced battery in dark no problem and carried on, I've been using a drone pro for a a few years now, but really like this little pard and I'm sure you'll be happy with one too.

[phoenix]

The shooting position is much better than with any add-on, but you will almost certainly need something to raise the comb so that you can get a good cheek weld.
I use a short piece of foam pipe lagging sliced lengthwise and held in place with tape - works perfect!!
OK, you spot with thermal, so the best set up for the scope is to have it switched on and the IR at full power, but with "sleep" mode enabled with a brief press of the on/off button.
This switches off the IR and the screen to reduce power consumption.
Another brief press of the on/off button immediately switches the IR and the screen back on ready for the shot.
There is a battery indicator on the display screen which continually shows the state of the battery.
When the battery indicator box turns red, you switch off and change the battery - simples
if you let the battery run down to the point where the scope switches it self off, you may need to reinstall the firmware.
However, this does NOT happen with the 008LRF.

Cheers

Bruce