New Tests at Rolaids Bench

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Rolaids
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New Tests at Rolaids Bench

Post by Rolaids » 03 May 2013, 03:27

Hey all - Roland here looking for ideas....

I now have all my parts together for my next adventure so watch this for whats up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWdBVYV ... e=youtu.be


.....assuming you watched it then I won't type a bunch but WOW - Way to GO WATEC!!!!! Thanks to Morten(jamez) for all his deep knowledge and discussion with Watec along with my input we may just soon have the scopeless package nailed in a high end build .....ok 'some bloke' you started all this - now this train is about out of control :shock: :wtf:


So what I am asking for is any input/ideas you want to share as I do comparison tests over the next few weeks. Morten and I are hammering out some techie stuff that I first thought I'd post. Now thinking it might be cleaner to hear thoughts and then try to put together a few good test environments that I/we can repeat down the road..... Backwoods Science Test Lab 2.0 :ugeek: :lol:


One more note - PLEASE hold all the questions about specifics on camera's etc. I need all my brain energy focused on testing as I have these prototypes for a limited time - just focus on test ideas that you would like to see when I get the results to everyone. Thanks guys!! :thumbup:

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some bloke
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Re: New Tests at Rolaids Bench

Post by some bloke » 03 May 2013, 06:08

Brilliant - it needed someone with more resources and a lot more about them than me to take the idea forwards Roland - and I think you are very well placed to do just that in your excellent usual way with the right words and video appeal. I am very very pleased about where you are taking the Watec scopeless DIY breakthrough.

My only input is that I am hoping Watec will be able to stop the issues I had with regard to the flare up - if that's what it's called. Were it not a problem I think I would have used it more and possibly took it a little further forwards. If Watec are watching this thread here are the issues that held me back which I suspect a manual gain control would have cleared up. However it's still not clear if the JXD990 DVR was part of the problem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fnzsll0TYMk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38k2YVnKCik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lezVpk_j1_E

As for test ideas, well what we do is on the land rather than the sky - but most locations we use it in will include night skylight on the horizon. In our application the foreground is frequently lit up more than further away because we are using it parallel just above ground rather than near the roof of a building as per usual CCTV locations. I think Bruce pointed out that when the lower and central portion of the sensor detects enough illumination the shutter speed it raised - but that ruins the longer distance imagery we require.

I'm looking forwards to what we are about to receive lol. :thumbup:
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SikaStag
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Re: New Tests at Rolaids Bench

Post by SikaStag » 03 May 2013, 08:21

Looking forward with interest to your camera shoot off. The new prototype, I will be really interesting to see if it is as good as we all think it is going to be.

Thank you to you and Morten for getting Watec to listen to what the customer requires.

Holding my breath on the price of the new cameras. I need to start saving.


Ian

michael40
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Re: New Tests at Rolaids Bench

Post by michael40 » 03 May 2013, 09:07

Some exciting things to come then Rolaids.

I think the biggest factor is cost, so for me it's the lower end cctv cameras .

Good cheap affordable diy nv for the masses.

Again, its good to see you back posting, and look forward to your reviews .

Atb, mike

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paulham
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Re: New Tests at Rolaids Bench

Post by paulham » 03 May 2013, 09:26

michael40 wrote:Some exciting things to come then Rolaids.

I think the biggest factor is cost, so for me it's the lower end cctv cameras .

Good cheap affordable diy nv for the masses.

Again, its good to see you back posting, and look forward to your reviews .

Atb, mike
Same, I think its good that watec have listened to the customers. But the price is a concern. Most people from here are on a budget, only a couple of people have bought Watecs brand spanking new.
Most of us have opted for the factory seconds with some dead pixels to get us up and running becasue buying brand new is so expensive.

Cheers
Paul

jamez
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Re: New Tests at Rolaids Bench

Post by jamez » 03 May 2013, 11:49

Fantastic! I am really really exited! :thumbup: :clap: :thumbup: :clap: :thumbup:

And its only been 10 days since I started the "New and better Watec with crosshair, anyone?"-thread , and less than a month since I started speaking with Roland and Watec about this ! !

Can't wait to hear what you discover!

some bloke wrote: My only input is that I am hoping Watec will be able to stop the issues I had with regard to the flare up - if that's what it's called.
this "problem" you are having looks like a HSBLC (highlight supress backlight compensation) thingy is activated and set to a high level on your camera... It does that.
It may look weird, but it doesnt matter, and you dont loose any information in the image. it only makes the highlights that are already burnt out grey instead of full white...
This new watec camera has an OSD and more options for exposure, HSBLC, BLC and high dynamic range mode...

The new camera can be configured with both area and position for BLC - so we can set it to be a small area just above/around the crosshair center so that we're able to get a correct exposure even though both the night sky and ground in front of us it overlit.

I did a comparison earlier this week with the ej230 (and 50mm/0.95 -efficiently at ~1.5) - compared with a gen2+ and a gen3 nv device, and a Zeiss HT 3-12.
The Zeiss HT lost track first. And the Zeiss gen2+ kind of was lacking in resolution, but did take up dark shadows better than the ej230 when it was getting past midnight, but not by a huge amount.
The gen3 was real awsome, and had amazing resolution. So I don't think thats even a contest there. (Simrad KN250 unit)
But I am confident that just the new Watec only frame integration mode will buy you 2 (1/15sec) or 3 (1/8sec) f-stops, and the sensor then adds about one f-stop.
So, over the ej230 I guess 4 to 5 f-stops increase in performance is plausible...

This is what a 3 1/3 -stop difference looked like on my DSLR. 24mm, iso 25600, f1.4. Pixel pitch is about same as 1/2" watecs. With the ej230 and 50mm I was able to see details a tiny bit better than the low exposure, but not as bright as the high exposure. The 1:1pixel cutout is 410meters, and contain a moose size silhuette, and some 30cm round metal plates.
View with the naked eye is much darker than both these exposures.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk31 ... 58f8b9.jpg

But I guess we'll get some real results from Roland very soon! ! :mrgreen:

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snoopy
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Re: New Tests at Rolaids Bench

Post by snoopy » 03 May 2013, 12:12

i thought it was 'blow out' or 'white out', it happens on DSLR's eather in the blacks/darks or lighter 'highlight', eather way theyre out of the dynamic range for the setting that the cam is using.

the exsposure sets to what ever program is selected, or auto.

it then exsposes for say the center of the image, the dynamic lighting range is acounted for in that center, for example in 'numbers' the camera can see 5 out of 10 steps, if it exsposes at 5 on a 1-10 line, and only has a dynamic range of 4 it can only get a proper image at between 3 and 7, anything below 3 blacks out, anything above 7 whites out.(basically yu cant have everything lol).

if an auto gain is used it can only adjust for certain averages, so some where in the extreme of darkness there will be bits that are to dark or too light..manauly you'd be changing every other second..so it ends up as get the best you can.
'who is that masked man? its the kemosabby der..the bloody injun tells you every week!'

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snoopy
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Re: New Tests at Rolaids Bench

Post by snoopy » 03 May 2013, 12:14

and heyyyy nice one Rolaids :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

edit..testing idias, looking over bush's close to at stuff far away to see how the white out effects the exsposer, like wise under and over and through things, rats and smaller vermin usualy hide under or in or top of something, some cams and NV or the illuminators wont let you see under a cabinet, the cabinate whites out or it wont exspose for under it sort of thing.

e.g. can you see 'into' the bushs..not just whats this side.
'who is that masked man? its the kemosabby der..the bloody injun tells you every week!'

PESCA

Re: New Tests at Rolaids Bench

Post by PESCA » 03 May 2013, 13:20

I'm used to it being termed 'blow-out' too, snoopy. As you rightly say, a dslr term. Over exposed.

George

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snoopy
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Re: New Tests at Rolaids Bench

Post by snoopy » 03 May 2013, 16:29

PESCA wrote:I'm used to it being termed 'blow-out' too, snoopy. As you rightly say, a dslr term. Over exposed.

George
in the begining was a planet, baron and dry, then came the green allgea floatign on the solar winds of time and space, the gooey mess made life and humans, with tecnologies beyond stone, flint or even copper and bronse, cicilisasions based on the bigger lump of stone,flint..copper, or even the highest velocity round in the new world of tecnology.

evertualy (its a comady..i havent lost it totaly yet lmao!) tecnology became the new god, factries, science, and even engineering tore down anything its path leaving a wake of tecno foabia untill one day, they'd all but perfected wet film and photograghy, then, from where no one knows the magical world of pc's, cmos chips and ccd sencors spore a new world for all, cheap..easy point and shot...but, before any of this could happen, they took a vote on the general public and the photograghy exsperts to see how they wanted this world of tecno 'any one can point and shoot it', alas..evil rose its head and the vote was cast 'we want it the same as the wet film!! iso's and f/ stopps, but most of all we want to throw away all our old lenses and camera's they said.. well the manufacturers thoughts that what they mean.

finaly, the choise was...do you want the equivelent of zero iso to 1600 iso, all perfectly exsposed, or do want the old iso sytem?

i lost the jist at this point because it was meyhem on the forums, people were offered the perfic system, under the perfect dream, and miraculously chose to stick with the crappy version.(for our own best intrests of course)

alas popularity amoungst 'the in the know' crowd killed out any real hopes for tecnology..and defined blow out as a quontifiable 'exspenditure' that could be strickly monitered and sold in unts of. After all..they didnt want to confuse any one, or was it the b**lshit took over..i cant remember now..

so..we have blow out at a reasonable cost, a cost dictated not by value or worth but what people will pay...hehehehe for a halfa job joe hahaha.

sorry.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

needs a secret language Gearge or people get upset for paying for old rope.
'who is that masked man? its the kemosabby der..the bloody injun tells you every week!'

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